tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2703861414547309188.post5325512534716624902..comments2024-03-25T20:40:44.806-04:00Comments on Literary Rejections on Display Now Has Long COVID: Blah, Blah, BlahWriter, Rejectedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17241982229214057815noreply@blogger.comBlogger76125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2703861414547309188.post-41509804497979803482008-05-20T13:03:00.000-04:002008-05-20T13:03:00.000-04:00Anon: I never discourage anyone from commenting he...Anon: I never discourage anyone from commenting here. I like to hear what everyone says. And certainly I clog with negativity on occasion. Sometimes something just gets stuck in the old gullet and you have to spew to get it out. Everyone's opinion is welcome here.Writer, Rejectedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17241982229214057815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2703861414547309188.post-84133965683320197912008-05-19T22:09:00.000-04:002008-05-19T22:09:00.000-04:00actually, i'll just leave it over there. feel like...actually, i'll just leave it over there. feel like this thread is getting way long. it's under the should writers be critics post. sAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2703861414547309188.post-13528828649099641772008-05-19T22:07:00.000-04:002008-05-19T22:07:00.000-04:00i understand what you mean, anon. i know it can be...i understand what you mean, anon. i know it can be frustrating how all writers seem to know each other. and there is nepotism and there are people who just luck out, i'm sure. but please know that really, pretty much without exception, it takes talent and hard work to make it in the door. lots of talented people don't make it through those first doors b/c of bad luck or circumstance, but that shouldn't discredit the people who do make it through. we all start from the same place, right? there's a post on ward 6 that sums a lot of it up, though a bit angrily. i'll re-post it below (hope you don't mind anon2). once you get in those first couple doors, it becomes much, much easier, which i think is what you're objecting to. but all those first steps are struggles. they were the same for me as for you or anyone else. getting into an mfa, getting into my first magazine. there were no breaks. no advantages. i didn't know anyone at any mfa's. i didn't know anyone at the magazines i sent to, had no connections. had nothing going for me. and i spent some time reading applications for my alma mater and the absolute rule was what matters most, far, far beyond any transcripts or rec.s or anything else is the fiction submission. so there really is integrity to the system at its initial levels. it's system too narrow for enough good writers to fit through, yes, and there should be more space, more opportunity. but again, why does that undercut the people who do make it through? now, as for the connections aspect once you've climbed up the ladder a bit... once you're in a magazine, of course you have connections there. or once you've published a book, of course it's easier for you to publish a second one (unless the 1st one did terribly). and of course you know tons of other writers. you studied together, or were in magazines together, or taught together (that's a big one) or did a reading together. it's no different than any other profession. you must know lots of other reviewers or critics, no? or if you have another job, you must know people in that field you'd refer people to, right? why there's anything wrong with writers getting breaks once they've made it through the first couple hoops is a bit of a mystery to me. maybe i'm being an asshole, but if i made it into a magazine off the slush once, why shouldn't i get to send directly to their editor the next time? there's no way he or she will take it if the story isn't up to par anyway (believe me, i still get rejected all the time). and i don't get to cut any line at any other magazine. and like anon2 from ward6, my writer friends are people whose work i really respect. they're people i met along the way who inspired me. we trade work as it's coming along. we're peers. colleagues. writers need those, too. just like everyone else. doctors, lawyers... why shouldn't writers know and help each other if they respect each other's work? i would never try to help someone get a look in a magazine i'd been in whose work i hated. would you refer a client to a colleague whose work you knew was shoddy? there's really no conspiracy. it's not a clique. it's a workplace where people do know each other. but there is (like anon2 says) a lot of integrity and professionalism. please let me know your thoughts. i want to understand if i'm way off here. thanks. <BR/><BR/>here's anon2's post. he said it better than me...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2703861414547309188.post-31892983757016165132008-05-19T21:45:00.000-04:002008-05-19T21:45:00.000-04:00"I don't know about anyone else out there, but I'd..."I don't know about anyone else out there, but I'd be happy if he'd quit clogging the site with such negativity."<BR/><BR/>Then just say so, W,R.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2703861414547309188.post-17090817825229588242008-05-19T20:05:00.000-04:002008-05-19T20:05:00.000-04:00Yeah. Totally. I think I'm best characterized as ...Yeah. Totally. I think I'm best characterized as a disappointed bitter anon who likes to whine about how unfair publishing is. I have a hard time going up against those personally who somehow make the damn literary system work for them, though it makes me feel all the more cursed. Let's face it, a lot of us are talented, but some of us are luck or smart: in the right place at the right time with the right connections anyway.Writer, Rejectedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17241982229214057815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2703861414547309188.post-24891435900838128292008-05-19T19:58:00.000-04:002008-05-19T19:58:00.000-04:00Thanks, Scott, for initiating civil words between ...Thanks, Scott, for initiating civil words between us. Yes, I've only read one thing you wrote. There are writers I love, but if I read the wrong book first I would not have read the six wonderful ones by them. <BR/>Actually, I think there's a vast generational divide separating us. As for the story in question -- sorry, but I have to stick to my opinion about it.<BR/>Yeah, the anons get mixed up. Again, a bunch of them are not me. But I wish we were not all categorized in a way that is dismissive of our complaints about literary fiction. Even if we get a bit strident (though most of us are reasonable in our arguments).<BR/>Trevor, in "Sacred Statues," treats failure with respect. He's done some great stuff. Like "Mrs. Eckdorf in O'Neill's Hotel," a novel which I read recently.<BR/>W,r -- are you an "angry anon"? <BR/>My point pertained to How Things Work in the literary world (while it's being strenuously denied that things work that way). If you want to succeed, get in with the right people. <BR/>Why don't you and Scott get together? I'm sure he'd like to read something you wrote. And, if it's good he can help you get it placed somewhere. Then you can be happy. Maybe even give up this blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2703861414547309188.post-15172020942280609882008-05-19T18:38:00.000-04:002008-05-19T18:38:00.000-04:00Angry Dude: If Scott Snyder (or anyone for that ma...Angry Dude: If Scott Snyder (or anyone for that matter) wanted to help me get published, and share contacts, and read work, and exchange ideas, I'd snap it all up in a hot second. People in the biz are not usually that generous. It's nice that it's happening here.Writer, Rejectedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17241982229214057815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2703861414547309188.post-22187080767767440242008-05-19T17:17:00.000-04:002008-05-19T17:17:00.000-04:00hey angry-anon. listen, i'm sorry to hear of the i...hey angry-anon. listen, i'm sorry to hear of the illness in your family. i'm also new to posting on blogs in general, so the idea that there were more than one angry-anons or that angry-anon was some kind of conglomeration of anon's... sorry if you were being mischaracterized. some other posts implied that you were a writer, too. for what it's worth (like you said, zilch, i'm sure), i have read most of the stories on your list, not all. and i'm a big william trevor fan. why you're so adamant about not respecting me as a writer is a bit of a mystery to me -you've read one story and know nothing about me- but again, however you feel is fine. wish you the best of luck writing your reviews and literary essays. would love to read those, too - not to critique them or anything - just to share thoughts. just two people who like stories. where can i find it? please let me know. wishing you the best. tcb. sAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2703861414547309188.post-3820094104438128862008-05-19T16:32:00.000-04:002008-05-19T16:32:00.000-04:00I'm angry-anon, I guess. Also, I'm jealous. Just b...I'm angry-anon, I guess. Also, I'm jealous. Just because I express my feelings. <BR/>Oh, I'm afraid to show my work, too. <BR/>The fact of the matter is that I wrote the review of Egg and the comment with the list of stories, plus a few other comments, but most of the "angry" anons are NOT me. Why have I been silent? A serious illness in the family.<BR/>Strange world you exist in, Scott. Is workshopping all you know? You write that you'll tell me if my work is strong, you'll help me make it better. I got a laugh out of that. Why would I give a hoot what you think when I clearly don't respect you as a writer?<BR/>But in this silly discourse, one line you wrote stands out: IF IT'S GOOD, I'LL EVEN HELP TRY TO PLACE IT.<BR/>You will? You mean you have contacts that I don't? (Oh -- wait! -- contacts don't count. Sorry.)<BR/>You're chock full of incorrect assumptions about me. I write reviews and literary essays. Not poetry or fiction. And I'll keep on doing that. <BR/>I still believe that you didn't read one story on that list of ten (plus the one that's in the Rejected Story Corner, which is there for you to read and comment on; I commented on it, long ago). <BR/>For what it's worth (which is about zilch), I'll offer another story for your consideration: William Trevor's "Sacred Statues." It's about failure, by someone with insight and compassion. <BR/>Anyway, this has degenerated into a playground dispute, middle school level. Complete with rolled up comic books in the back pockets of jeans.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2703861414547309188.post-19153155889909664052008-05-17T13:18:00.000-04:002008-05-17T13:18:00.000-04:00in case anyone was wondering, angry-anon never sen...in case anyone was wondering, angry-anon never sent his work to me. :(Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2703861414547309188.post-27167626346790719682008-05-16T22:00:00.000-04:002008-05-16T22:00:00.000-04:00Send it to me via email, angry anon. I"ll post it ...Send it to me via email, angry anon. I"ll post it right up.Writer, Rejectedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17241982229214057815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2703861414547309188.post-36757602086401811352008-05-16T21:48:00.000-04:002008-05-16T21:48:00.000-04:00POST, angry-anonymous! Please! We want to see your...POST, angry-anonymous! Please! We want to see your work!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2703861414547309188.post-82373156966051428622008-05-16T19:23:00.000-04:002008-05-16T19:23:00.000-04:00Angry Anon. Here's how to settle this. Post a piec...Angry Anon. Here's how to settle this. Post a piece of your own writing here. Why do you avoid this when Snyder asks? Are u scared it's no good? Come on. Prove everyone wrong!!! Show us you're the guy who can really write but who doesn't get noticed. I want to believe that there are great writers out there who don't get a chance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2703861414547309188.post-85500046391678421642008-05-16T17:37:00.000-04:002008-05-16T17:37:00.000-04:00Hey, angry anon: I have an MFA from Iowa. I earn...Hey, angry anon: I have an MFA from Iowa. I earned it in the late '80s, wrote three unpublished novels before publishing my first book eleven years after getting the degree. I also taught as an adjunct at several colleges, sometimes earning a whopping sum of $1,000 per month for teaching four classes, with no health benefits or retirement, etc. It's been twenty years now since I got my degree, and I've published a few books and have a good job, but I still get rejections from little magazines and book publishers alike. That's part of the business, buddy. No one owes you squat. Nobody. Oh yeah...I'm a first-generation college student and accumulated a boat-load of debt for all three of my degrees. Based on your rants (or maybe there's more than one angry anon on here), I should have been handed a sweet book deal and a cushy job upon graduation. I guess I'm failing to see how you and I are different, except that I've worked my ass off to get where I am, and all you seem to be doing is bitching and moaning. I'm exhausted by the anti-MFA rant. I've never -- ever -- had an editor or agent ask me where I went to school, and I quit mentioning it on my cover letter once I realized that, no, it didn't get me anything. Hell, I'll go one step further and say that there's probably more anti-Iowa folks out there than pro-Iowa folks ready to open their doors and hand me a fat check. One more thing: Would I care if you liked my work? If you did, great; but if you didn't, no, not really.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2703861414547309188.post-52849339956052276552008-05-16T17:06:00.000-04:002008-05-16T17:06:00.000-04:00To the angry anon (hey, can you anonymice start us...To the angry anon (hey, can you anonymice start using different handles at least, so I can separate the logical from the wackadoos?). Let's pretend for one moment, painful though it may be, that you're right, and there is MFA nepotism rampant in the VQR world. Here's a question, then - how did Snyder get into an MFA program in the first place? Is it part of a scheme to admit hacks and then give them the keys to the literary world in a nefarious plot to keep genius writers (like yourself?) shut out, thus eventually killing literature altogether? Or, is it possible they admit fantastic writers who go on to have a lot of things published because they're fantastic writers? I have no doubt most of the authors who have gotten published post-MFA would have been published anyway, they just chose to take advantage of a great artistic environment that allows a writer to give and receive peer feedback and really polish their work. Those of us who don't have the time or money to pursue an MFA do have to work a bit harder to carve out time and find the dedication to polish our work, but I'm sure you'll find that time if you stop trolling on the internet, roll up your sleeves, and get to editing. Then you can get published, too, and I'm sure your rampant bitterness will subside.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2703861414547309188.post-70569774568699064972008-05-16T16:46:00.000-04:002008-05-16T16:46:00.000-04:00anon's so jealous it burns my screen.anon's so jealous it burns my screen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2703861414547309188.post-53819788523311835692008-05-16T16:34:00.000-04:002008-05-16T16:34:00.000-04:00Don't pay any attention to anon, Scott. He's just ...Don't pay any attention to anon, Scott. He's just a bitter dude. He hasn't read anything by you other than one story to criticize you. It's obvious us that he's just jealous, like anon2 said. Don't let some old, envious guy get you down. He's just upset he'll never make it as a writer. I don't know about anyone else out there, but I'd be happy if he'd quit clogging the site with such negativity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2703861414547309188.post-89084091505287346662008-05-16T14:48:00.000-04:002008-05-16T14:48:00.000-04:00anon's jealousanon's jealousAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2703861414547309188.post-22764554201004076492008-05-16T13:47:00.000-04:002008-05-16T13:47:00.000-04:00Scott - I'm the anonymous who posted the list of s...Scott - I'm the anonymous who posted the list of stories. I think you make some invalid assumptions about me.<BR/>The stories I listed belong to a very old tradition of storytelling. That's why I picked them. They weren't "subversive" or even "exciting" when they were written. No style or subject breakthroughs. <BR/>I don't believe you read any of them. <BR/>In your remarks you have me being "horrified" and claim that I would be "whining" (God, you people do overuse that word in referring to people who criticize the staus quo/Establishment). How do you know all these things about me?<BR/>MFA writing dominates literay fiction today, to the exclusion of all else. If you make the right contacts, even a bad writer like you can "succeed."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2703861414547309188.post-40187032084223772652008-05-15T15:53:00.000-04:002008-05-15T15:53:00.000-04:00ps - i wish i could keep arguing with you here, an...ps - i wish i could keep arguing with you here, anonymous. i'll admit it, i've been having some selfish fun egging you on, but in all seriousness, i'd love to take up issues of nepotism and elitism in mfa's, as i have my own strong feelings about those - but i simply don't have the time. so here's the bottom line: my offer stands. send over a poem or story.this isn't a trap. i'm not out to get you. i'll give you honest advice. if it's good, i'll even help you try to place it. if not, i'll help try to make it better. i won't even tell anyone you sent something if you don't want me to. but i won't be posting here after this anymore. best of luck. tcb. sAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2703861414547309188.post-85146983167303905062008-05-15T15:37:00.000-04:002008-05-15T15:37:00.000-04:00anonymous! good, you're back! i wasn't saying that...anonymous! good, you're back! i wasn't saying that everything good is subversive. just that many of those stories listed were quite daring when they came out, daring in style or content. i love the majority of the stories listed, too. not b/c they were subversive, but because they're good reads. still, there's no denying that yates and o'hara and basically everyone you listed was fresh and new and different when they arrived on the scene. my point is simply that cranking about how they wouldn't be published today is neither here nor there. they were published. by insightful editors, and most likely, you would've hated their stories when they first appeared. so. why don't you post a poem or story of yours here and let us respond to it? let us see what you're up to, anonymous. i'm dead serious. i'm not being patronizing. i really am fascinated by all your crankiness and anger. likely it makes for passionate fiction! let me have a look-see. do you have a blog of your own, where i can find your writing? how about you send privately to me via my site? i really want to see what you do. i promise, if your work is strong, i'll say so. privately, in public... i'll even help you try to place it. for real. so here i wait.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2703861414547309188.post-79487374141063837962008-05-15T14:31:00.000-04:002008-05-15T14:31:00.000-04:00"by the way, that old argument about whether or no..."by the way, that old argument about whether or not classic stories would be published today... what you fail to realize is that those stories were new and different when they were first published. take hemingway. had you been around when he was first publishing, you'd have been horrified by the style. you'd have been whining that no one would publish james or dickens nowadays."<BR/><BR/>This is stupid. This is moronic and so is the whole idea that your story has to be "subversive" ... subversive to what? And if it's true, then why not some stories that are subversive to the establishment views, which are so nicely propogated at VQR (and every other academic journal)?<BR/><BR/>Well, it'd be a bit hard to "subvert" the agenda of the publishers -- as if they're going to let ideas and views contrary to their own accepted ones slip in.<BR/><BR/><BR/>"and don't be so angry at writers, who get mfa's. what's the problem?"<BR/><BR/>?<BR/><BR/>You must not have been reading any of this. Maybe your friend told you about this site. Nobody here is angry at writers who get MFAs. Look on the right, click the popular posts and read what we say. Scroll down and read the old posts. Academia and the MFA culture has been discussed quite thoroughly in here. We don't like the system, we don't like the product, we don't like the elitism and nepotism and the way that MFA culture squeezes everything else out. Pick up a copy of Poetry magazine and read the contributor notes.e All MFA students and their teachers, every last one. That's bogus. Just like the great bulk of their poetry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2703861414547309188.post-26692683276576856642008-05-14T16:25:00.000-04:002008-05-14T16:25:00.000-04:00don't know why puc can't keep with the program...m...don't know why puc can't keep with the program...moving his comment here:<BR/>So I read “The 13th Egg.” It’s a 50’s TV sitcom, or something from The Twilight Zone series. I thought of Ray Bradbury. It’s a comic book idea story, the origins of a new superhero... I wondered if kids would use the F word like that, in 1946 – soldiers at war, sure, but to their small town girlfriends back home? But there were too few clues to any local idiom, just the F word every now and then, so I thought its use gratuitous. I also looked for accuracy, wondering why he called it a Johnny Mercer song, when Mercer wrote only the lyrics, but I decided this was unfair of me (yet, what’s the Mercer song in the story for? Is it a pun on light, “Travelin’ Light,” for our hero? But’s that’s not the meaning of light in the song). I noticed some consistency, which might be described as sentimental: "mouf" for example, from the sailor whose face is heated off; and, "assignment...had come down the pipe" the military gives orders, not assignments, and do things “come down the pipe”? Again, they do on TV – it’s a form of shorthand. Is supe a word? I don’t think so; the OED would use "soup" for souping up a car, his meaning here, not “supe.” "Yolks on you" is forced, but suits the 50's sitcom or Twilight Zone emulation we've got going here. "Sheriff Gilgoff." What kind of name is Gilgoff? It brings too much attention to itself coming so late in the story. "Fingers like tiny microphones" isn’t bad. The pilot falling from a clear sky and landing on the deck hits with the intended surprise. The iceberg motif works. The clubfoot (one word, I think, not two, but OED shows it with a hyphen) is an easy explanation that TV would use, and allows for the ending to take shape, which is how TV stories are constructed. Is it a war story? Is it even a story about how WWII affected soldiers, their girls and families and friends? No. Is it history? No. But you can’t criticize a story for being something it’s not intended to be. It’s a “Jody was home when you left” story: boy goes off to war, comes home to find his girl’s dating another boy, the boys fight – our hero wins in a nuclear fantasy ending. Is this a “good” story? Well, it’s not Hemingway’s “Soldier’s Home.” It’s not Bob Dylan’s “John Brown,” (which should get a listen if you want to know what can happen to a soldier’s face). It’s not Adam Haslett, not Breece D’JPancake. No, this is not a very hard-boiled story (sorry for the pun). But it’s not supposed to be. It’s 1950’s TV. But even on those terms, it’s only moderately successful, because it lacks unity of purpose. It’s certainly not literary, not in the way any of Joyce’s “Dubliners” are. “Scraps of molten steel spun across the ground, turning the sand to black glass.” Not a bad sentence; a great sentence in a comic book. The S’s do their job. But you need more than a little alliteration for the whole to achieve what we might, reluctantly in this environment, call art. But I don’t think “art” is this writer’s intention. I think he’s having fun. In the end I guess I’m surprised that VQR prints this story when we’re spending close to $400 million a day in Iraq. Seems irreverent. Which may be part of the problem. I don’t know if the writer was ever a soldier, but I doubt it. I think this writer is having fun. The story is probably informed more by the writer’s interests than by his experience, like someone talking about their hobbies. I do not think war is his interest here (if it is, and we compare to something like “Letters from Iwo Jima,” we’ve got a problem). I think his interest here is sci-fi. But more power to him. I would like to see his short story book, to see, if placed in the context of other stories similarly built, there emerges a sharing of his interests in a way that builds a world. At close to 10K words, he had the chance here to build a world, and he may have, but in the end, it’s a shorthand world. I think of Joyce’s Farrington in “Counterparts,” or Little Chandler in his “A Little Cloud.” Or Stephen Crane’s “The Monster.” If “The 13th Egg” is evidence, I no longer think the argument is about the slush pile, but I don’t know what it is about. (also commented at Ward Six).<BR/><BR/>May 14, 2008 12:32 PMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2703861414547309188.post-36581924856761075862008-05-14T14:03:00.000-04:002008-05-14T14:03:00.000-04:00name-calling...oh well, the offer still stands, an...name-calling...oh well, the offer still stands, anonymous. happy to read your work anytime. just remember to put your name at the top of the parchment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2703861414547309188.post-2202446974832566592008-05-14T12:22:00.000-04:002008-05-14T12:22:00.000-04:00hey joebob - shoot me an email. love to talk off t...hey joebob - shoot me an email. love to talk off the air.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com